Some suggestions on flight dynamics

Discussion in 'Besiege: General Discussion' started by TYRTlive, Apr 18, 2017.

  1. TYRTlive

    TYRTlive New Member

    Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum. I actually signed up only to open this thread, but I guess I will visit more frequently than I would think because it's a very friendly community. Anyways, I've been playing the game for over 200hrs, and I would like to make some suggestions based on my experience.
    1. The singular wing is underpowered: If you use double wing panel you get way more lift, which doesn't make much sense because the singular wing and 2x wing panels almost have the same area, in fact the singular wing looks even bigger. So I think it should have more lift.

    2. Turning off auto-brake doesn't change much: I mean it does, for land vehicles, but for aerial builds like a helicopter it slows down really quick. I couldn't find any way to make it spin longer(using swivel joint or something). This is not a big deal but we can't have autorotation on our vehicles without reduced drag on the wheels.

    3. Wooden blocks are too weak: They are wooden alright, but I think we should have a stronger alternative to them. In planes before we reach the nominal rpm it just rips off, or if there is (perfectly balanced) high torque on the block same thing happens. If I use something like mass, then it rips off from the joint.

    4. Weird vibration on high-torque systems: No matter how you balance a propeller, the machine is almost always shaking while you fly. It's really annoying.

    I'm not saying that these are glitches or anything, they might be a feature. Well I'm opening this thread to learn lol.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  2. ITR

    ITR l̺̤͈̘̰̺͉̳͉̖̝̱̻̠̦͈ͅ֍̫̜̥̭͖̱̟̟͉͙̜̰ͅl̺̤͈̘̰̺͉̳͉̖̝̱̻̠̦͈ͅ Staff Member

    For point 3, have you tried using ballasts or braces? You could also check out machines other's have made to get ideas on how to get around the problem.
    Not sure about the other stuff, but you could try joining the discord and getting some help there
     
  3. Shade

    Shade Active Member

    1. I agree, wing panel is more superior in every aspect
    2. It slows down because the angle of the propeller blades. If you have mod you can easily fine tune the angle so that it will generate least drag.
    3. I never have that problems with wooden block, and my planes are made of wood. Maybe its your engine design
    4. Have you tried to negate the torque?
     
  4. TYRTlive

    TYRTlive New Member

    Yeah I've tried ballasts, didn't work quite well haha. I meant ballasts by mass. I could use braces, but where is the propeller going to hold onto with the braces? The spinning wheel rips off anyway.

    1. Yee
    2. That drag is huge, especially considering a typical helicopter rotor, if they just drop collective to zero the rotor basically spins forever until the collective is raised again. In the game there is an instant drop in rpm.
    3. Probably lol
    4. Yeah torque is definitely neutralized. In my planes I use two motors, one CCW one CW, and in my drones I use 2CCW 2CW just like the real thing. The vehicle just "wiggles" in a weird way, especially when the torque is too high(either big propellers or high rpm triggers this wiggling motion.)

    Edit: I think the vibrations are caused by the wheel's joint. It just goes back and forth when rpm is too high and if there is a big propeller. I'm sure that the propeller is perfectly balanced.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  5. Shade

    Shade Active Member

    a pic of your engine would be helpful for identifying the problem
     
  6. TYRTlive

    TYRTlive New Member

    Both of these engines have the same vibration problem. I don't know if it's relevant, but the first one works without invincible mode, the second one doesn't.

    Besiege 2017-04-20 01-46-39-49.png
    Besiege 2017-04-20 01-46-56-72.png

    http://imgur.com/a/OoQR0
     
  7. Shade

    Shade Active Member

    the problem lies in the way you connect the engine to the wooden air-frame.
    if you place it that way, the torque will be transferred to the wood and it will twisted by that much force.

    when i said to negate the torque, use torque-less engine design so that no torque will be transferred to the airframe.
    here's how you do it:
    behind the last wheel but before the air-frame, add a ballast + swivel joint.
    The joint should be fixed while the ballast should be rotating along with the wheel.
    Then add 2 braces perpendicular to each ballast exposed sides (i hope i explained it correctly)
     
  8. TYRTlive

    TYRTlive New Member

    http://imgur.com/a/iX74V
    Which one:D
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  9. Shade

    Shade Active Member

    Like this, notice the position of swivel joint
    The brace act as counterweight:
    [​IMG]

    The inside of the ballast:
    [​IMG]

    Also you might need to secure the rotor by adding additional swivel joint:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. TYRTlive

    TYRTlive New Member

    I just tried this design but it didn't work. The wheels transfer all the torque to the swivel, which makes the propellers useless. I guess the trick to make this work is the position of the first swivel joint, but how did you position it half a block behind the ballast?

    Edit: Got it! It's reversed...
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2017

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